MONTHLY WORK LOG TABLE OF CONTENTS
EARLY ENGINE DETAILS
If you've come to this page searching for "Eggenfellner problems" or "Eggenfellner engine problems", as so many do, you've sure come to the right place. Read on........
As you can see in the early engine logs that follow, I started off with great enthusiasm about the Jan Eggenfellner Subaru engine. Five years, many hundreds of hours of work, and many thousands of dollars in expenses after I began to receive the overdue FWF components piecemeal, it continues to be a nightmare. It still has major design faults and has required replacement or major rework of just about every component except the block and heads. No two Eggenfellner STi packages are the same; apparently all were thrown together hodge-podge. Some of the workmanship is horrendous. Several significant engineering challenges remain. The only support any of us who bought the STi engine package get is from each other. Each of us has had 4-5 years added to our build time because of this engine.
Only 3 customers have ever flown with the Eggenfellner STi engine, and none of those are flying now. One provided all or most of Eggenfellner Aircraft Engines' limited after-the-sale R&D, then swapped his STi out for an H6 shortly afterward. The second one flying crash-landed after the kluged ECU caused an engine shutdown. The third one had multiple PSRU failures, followed by a supercharger failure, but no crash, as well as numerous other problems, and he is now completely redesigning his FWF around a turbocharger and an aftermarket ECU. As of May, 2008, at least three other STi customers have written off the over $40k cost of the package and tossed it in favor of a Lycoming. A fourth certainly won't be returning to the Eggenfellner world after his STi-induced crash.
Despite the problems, the Eggenfellner Subaru factory supported the STi customers fairly well until early 2007, when Eggenfellner completely lost interest in further cooperation in working out the many remaining problems with the engine. There is also a group of early H6 owners with various FWF problems, and for whom the prickly Eggenfellner factory has lost interest in supporting. The Eggenfellner factory always blames all problems on its R&D Department; the customers.
HERE is the website of another of Eggenfellner Aircraft Engines' unhappy customers. There were several more, but they've either gone stale over the years (a couple of them were based on the defunct Yahoo Geocities) or threatened out of existence by Eggenfellner for telling the truth about their Eggenfellner problems. One was switched from telling a negative Eggenfellner story to just saying "this page removed at the demand of the engine builder", due to more threats from Eggenfellner.
The STi is not Eggenfellner's only orphan. I know of at least two other Eggenfellner H6 owners who have sold their planes to be rid of the Eggenfellner problems. Several other H6 owners have announced they are abandoning their Eggenfellner engine. Allan Christer's RV-9A H6 crashed after its Eggenfellner H6 shut down. Eggenfellner, of course, blamed that crash on the customer.
While Eggenfellner dances around the weight issue, the fact is that the Subaru engines are heavier than a Lycoming. One of the people who removed an Eggenfellner H6 due to problems and installed a Lycoming reported 120 pounds lighter nose wheel weight and 183 pounds lighter overall after the switch. Eggenfellner recommends aft batteries for a reason, even if he won't admit the engines are heavier.
The Eggenfellner H6 Orphans Yahoo group and the Eggenfellner STi Yahoo group were started by groups of Eggenfellner customers who'd been abandoned by the factory due to problems they'd encountered with their purchase. Jan Eggenfellner is so vindictive and childish that he promptly banned from his group anyone who'd joined one of these groups. With his attitude problems, he's alienated many suppliers and people in the business who've tried to help him. He screens posts on his own forum so it contains only positive messages, to get uninformed people to send a check and order an engine. If you doubt me, go ahead and buy from Eggenfellner. Remember, you've been warned here.
See HERE for details on the November, 2007 crash of Dan Lloyd's Eggenfellner-powered RV-10.
HERE is a very small example of Eggenfellner's erratic product focus and an example of how the company has its customers do all the R&D.
MAY, 2008 - Another H6 owner decides to sell his plane because of the Eggenfellner problems.
JUNE, 2008- 2 more STi customers have announced that they will no longer attempt to get their STi flying. They are writing off the cost of the Eggenfellner engine and installing a Lycoming.
AUGUST, 2008 - Another early H6 owner tosses in the towel on his engine.
OCTOBER, 2008- yet another STi customer has announced he will toss the Eggenfellner engine and put in a Lycoming. A couple weeks later, yet another Eggenfellner STi customer announced he has decided to sell his project, primarily due to all the engine problems. That leaves only 3 original STi customers out of the original 25 who are still trying to make Eggenfellner's mess work. Those 3 have replaced nearly every FWF component supplied by Eggenfellner; ECU (computer), wiring harness, cooling, throttle, boost and boost control. The STi owners continue to help each other struggle through the remaining engineering problems.
FEBRUARY, 2009- Randy Crothers has his turbocharged STi flying after replacing pretty much all Eggenfellner-supplied components. He reports high speeds and low fuel consumption! Very encouraging!
Numerous Eggenfellner H6 customers also continue to report problems, especially with the PSRU, major cooling problems, and factory attitude problems.
AUGUST, 2009 - yet another Eggenfellner E6 customer has announced "I have decided to scrap and write off the Eggenfellner engine pack, and have ordered a Lyco engine". That should tell you a lot about Eggenfellner's products and customer relations when so many people have chosen to write off tens of thousands of dollars rather than continue down such a disastrous path. Apparently the numerous problems with Eggenfellner's products and attitude have still not been resolved, even with the new E6. Late in the month, yet another Eggenfellner E6 customer announced he's selling his engine.
I also found out that Eggenfellner has screwed up yet another relationship with yet another supplier. Ross Farnham's SDS ECU, the best thing that ever happened to Eggenfellner's product line, is no longer being supplied on Eggenfellner products. Many customers continue to wait for delivery of props they already paid for, years ago in many cases.
SEPTEMBER, 2009 - yet another Eggenfellner customer announces he has decided not to use the H4 engine he bought from Eggenfellner, and has installed a Lycoming instead. One of the very few remaining Eggenfellner STi customers announced he's finally got his engine running. Not bad for a product that was shipped in early 2005.
NOV 2, 2009 - so many people have announced in the last few weeks that they are bailing from the Eggenfellner mess, I can't even keep track of them any more. There were 3 today alone. One said "I took a 40 thousand dollar hit on this airplane.... To have Jan out of my life is worth it." Another said "I'm going Lyc clone. Took 4 months to get my initial $250 back." Between the problems with the engines and PSRUs, props paid for years ago and no prop or refund in sight, Eggenfellner now trying to get 50% deposit from people for Gen3 PSRU orders after promising "no money needed to order", not to mention Eggenfellner's infamous attitude problems and surliness toward his R&D Dept (customers), I think it'd be quite a mistake to sign on now. Good luck to anyone who does.
NOV 24, 2009 - after blowing his relationship with his ECU supplier, Eggenfellner is now shipping engines WITH NO ECU. Of course, as with the STi components, an ECU is promised to follow shortly, as Eggenfellner scrambles to create his own ECU from scratch. Given Eggenfellner's "ship 'em, then let the customers test 'em" philosophy, I predict major disasters. Yet another customer announced today "Just removed my 3.6 from the airplane because of starting problems. Jan just don't give a darn after he has your money."
February 7, 2010 - I got this email from Jan Eggenfellner this morning. Apparently in keeping with his history of irrational business decisions and blaming all problems on the customer, he has chosen to blame me for whatever slowdown his business has taken. My family has urged me for years to sue Eggenfellner and/or institute a class action suit against him, but it hasn’t been worth the trouble to pursue it. Perhaps Jan is now proposing to make it worth my while.
SEPTEMBER, 2010 - I sold my plane, so none of this is my problem any more. Despite losing many tens of thousands of dollars ($70k loss on just the engine and BMA EFIS), I feel a sense of relief. Good luck and best wishes to the buyer, who plans to make it work. Other Egg customers continue to write off the cost and bail from it. I heard they still don't have an ECU for the engines, and that Eggenfellner's focus has now changed to Honda engines (under a new company name).
APRIL, 2013 - Readers of this site inform me that Jan Eggenfellner's new enterprise, Viking Aircraft Engines, is the exact same thing as with the Subaru engines, all over again with Honda Fit engines. They say it's same old Jan, same old business model, same old customer and vendor relationship problems, same old censoring, same old petty vindictiveness, same old use of customers as R&D Dept, same old robbing Customer Peter to pay Customer Paul, same old late shipping, same old shipping of incomplete engines, including NO ECU, same old dodging questions about how much the engine weighs or how much power it produces or where the engines come from or how TBO is determined, same old PSRU issues, same old personal attacks on anyone who doesn't drink the Viking Kool-Aid. They say Jan even reads and deletes Private Messages on his current site.
All the censoring on Eggenfellner's own Viking Yahoo Group led to a user, who couldn't get his questions answered on Jan's group, creating a new uncensored Viking Aircraft Owners group. That group was immediately threatened, including late night phone calls to the owner's home, out of existence by Eggenfellner.
A new group, with undisclosed owner, was then created. Check it out HERE to learn the truth about how nothing has changed for Eggenfellner and how he does business. Some of the Eggenfellner antics are downright funny - for example, Jan has been caught multiple times using aliases in the uncensored group, to try to inject some positive Viking spin into the conversation. Anyone who joined the new uncensored group was immediately banned from Jan's Viking group. I really think he's losing it mentally now; numerous others have also made that observation.
Jan has been kicked out of the Van's Air Force site for his repeated abuses there. He then said that, because the RV people were so "bad", he wasn't going to support any more RV-12 installations of his engine. Must be real nice for the RV-12 people who bought into Viking.
Many of the aircraft-specific forums are now starting to see the light on how Eggenfellner operates: Zenith, Sonex, Van's RV-12
Here's a good take on it from a blogger in the Subaru WRX world: http://jdfinley.com/what-happened-to-the-subaru-aircraft-engine/, especially the third paragraph including this gem of wisdom His former customers have been unbelievably kind in not tearing him apart in court and in the press – amazing to me. To those that are “Viking Aircraft Engine” customers – don’t start crying when the same thing happens to you. There is plenty of history there for you to have made a better and different choice.
SEPTEMBER, 2013 - HERE is a link to the site of another very unhappy Eggenfellner/Viking customer
HERE is some info to help you decipher Lycoming engine ID code numbers.
See HERE for Lycoming engine performance tables for Grand Rapids EFIS. For Lycoming fuel & power charts, see HERE and HERE and HERE.
See HERE for all my notes and pictures from attending a day-long "Superior SL-360 Engine Kit Buildup" seminar while I was at AirVenture 2003. Check it out if you want to learn how to put a Lycoming 360 cubic inch engine together.
Look HERE for an extensive compilation by Jack Erickson "... of data, references, aircraft applications, and notes for horizontally-opposed aircraft engines (HOAE) manufactured everywhere in the world."
Click HERE for Lycoming's Service Instruction 1497 for techniques on leaning. HERE is the same info in a PDF.
Click HERE for the latest 2010 "B" version of Lycoming's Service Instruction 1132B for doing a proper mag check
ENGINE WORK LOG
April, 2005 - As this page has grown over the years, I am now making separate pages for each month. So as to not have to change a million links, this page will remain as is, with bookmark links, then starting May, '05, each month will have its own page as I start installing the engine. Here is the table of contents:
2002 - start the planning
2003 - decide on Eggenfellner, place order 30.0 hours
2004 - fine-tune the Eggenfellner order amid changing Eggenfellner product offerings, send 50% deposit 25.5 hours
January, 2005 - collecting details on engine, looking into EcuTek Delta Dash 2.0 hours
February, 2005 - sent final balance on engine, Robert Paisley testing Delta Dash
March, 2005 - hey, where's my engine?
April, 2005 - got the engine!!! 4.0 hours
May, 2005 - prep for mounting the engine 2.0 hours
June, 2005 - yet more prep and finally mounting the engine 54.25 hours
July, 2005 - adding some of the missing pieces, getting mufflers mounted 70.0 hours
August, 2005 - heater, exhaust, fuel pumps, misc install 52.25 hours
November, 2005 - start installing STi upgrade parts 4.75 hours
December, 2005 - get rolling on the STi upgrade parts 109.75 hours
January, 2006 - engine details, wiring harness 37.5 hours
May, 2006 - engine wiring harness, wastegate control 54 hours
June, 2006 - finish engine wiring harness & sensor wiring 47.25 hours
July, 2006 - more wiring, trying to get it ready to start - see also July avionics page 23.25 hours
August, 2006 - more wiring, more details, trying to get it ready to start 17.25 hours
September, 2006 - still dragging on toward starting the engine 31.25 hours
October, 2006 - still trying to get engine ready to start, install alternator fuse & oil cooler thermostat 26.75 hours
November, 2006 - still not quite there - getting electrical nearly ready, adding console 34.0 hours
December, 2006 - quadrant & wastegate control work, finalize engine wiring, final fuel delivery prep 18.5 hours
January, 2007 - START THE ENGINE, work on mufflers, Eggenfellner Installation Inspection, connect supercharger 44.0 hours
February, 2007 - reinstall intercooler and related plumbing, install mufflers, install coolant overflow tank, engine test runs 37.75 hours
March, 2007 - quadrant top, OBD scanner work, redo intake air temp probe wiring, redo wastegate, redo fuel pressure manifold, install muffin fans for ground test cooling 13.75 hours
April, 2007 - redo wastegate & control, add low fuel pressure switch and supercharger pressure sensor 24.25 hours
May, 2007 - Various problems getting answers from Eggenfellner to my simple questions. I, and most other STi customers, have reached the final straw regarding all the problems with the STi engines. Amid growing reports of PSRU failures, Eggenfellner suddenly says the Gen 2 PSRUs he supplied with the engine are "marginal in every respect", then turns around and tries to claim the Gen 3 is an optional improvement, and we must pay him another $3000 for another untested PSRU design that he claims will actually work.
June, 2007 - growing unrest among the Eggenfellner STi customers. In addition to all the issues and hurdles we've been through, big new ones are PSRU Gen 3 issue, inadequate cooling issues, "expired warranty" issues, and new one = Eggenfellner's design & pulley choices will be greatly overspeeding the supercharger. 1.0 hour
July, 2007 - some STi customers are having starting problems, in addition to all the other problems. Monitoring possible solutions to the remaining major design problems. 1.0 hour
August, 2007 - Eggenfellner STi and H6 customers dealing with significant cooling problems, increasing unhappiness among STi customers about Eggenfellner's ever-worsening attitude toward us. 2.75 hours
September, 2007 - more attitude problems from Eggenfellner. One STi customer gives it up, pulls his STi, and puts it on the market. Latest problem - STi horsepower is greater than recommended by MT for the prop we got from Eggenfellner with the engine. 1.0 hour
October, 2007 - got new SC sprocket & shipped it to John Moody in Australia (prototype fix for SC overspeeding problem)
November, 2007 - remove Gen 2 PSRU and send it, along with $3,000, to Eggenfellner. Eggenfellner powered RV-10 crashes, killing pilot Dan Lloyd 4 hours
December, 2007 - look into doing the Van's nose gear leg SB, waiting for new Gen 3 PSRU
January, 2008 - install Gen 3 PSRU, make engine hoist frame, order new nose gear fork from Van's 9.75 hours
February, 2008 - finish engine hoist frame, start rethreading nose gear leg for Van's Service Bulletin. Eggenfellner H6 customer who'd had problems with his engine package crashes his plane. Eggenfellner blames it on customer. Questions arise about how very wrong Eggenfellner's supercharger design is. An STi customer finds that his Eggenfellner intake manifold was not properly machined 4.5 hours
March, 2008 - continue cranking on the die to rethread the nose gear leg. Eggenfellner blames last month's H6 crash on another cause, though still "customer's fault". 4.75 hours
April, 2008 - finish Van's nose gear SB, back to remaining design problems such as supercharger overspeeding and unreliable kluged ECU. Getting engine monitoring software going. Only flying STi customer crashes due to ECU going into "limp home" mode. While preparing to swap his stock ECU for the SDS ECU, another STi customer also finds his Eggenfellner STi intake manifold not properly machined flat. 6.75 hours
May, 2008 - planning for ECU swap. Another H6 owner decides to sell his plane because of the Eggenfellner problems.
June, 2008 - 2 more STi customers decide they've had it with Eggenfellner and decide to go for Lycoming, even if it means just walking away from the $40k cost. Start tearing into completed FWF to redo it for SDS engine computer. 5.75 hours
July, 2008 - continue "de-Egging" the FWF. Remove factory wiring harness, throttle & wastegate control, and supercharger pulley. Ordered & received new SDS ECU, replacement supercharger- and throttle-related parts. Started installing the SDS ECU. Ordered new SC pulley. 26.5 hours
August, 2008 - Another early H6 owner tosses in the towel on his engine. Continue installing SDS system 6.0 hours
September, 2008 - continuing SDS install 15.0 hours
October, 2008 - continuing SDS install. Yet another Eggenfellner STi customer removes his Eggenfellner engine due to extensive remaining issues and Eggenfellner's bad attitude, and installs a Lycoming. Yet another Eggenfellner STi customer decides to sell his RV, rather than continue to deal with the problems. Supercharger mount bracket mods & header pipe welding. Looking into getting custom radiators made to replace the inadequate ones supplied with the FWF. 31.0 hours
November, 2008 - continuing SDS install, designing custom radiators, reinstall modified supercharger bracket, adjust SC fit, modify SC pulley 17.5 hours
December, 2008 - reinstall supercharger, throttle, and related parts. More Eggenfellner customers finding problems with poorly-machined intake manifolds. 20.0 hours
January, 2009 - work on supercharger adjustment rod, throttle/wastegate cables & supports, reinstall exhaust, reinstall supercharger ducts, radiator planning, more SDS & sensor hookup, clean up ground bus harness. 22.25 hours
February, 2009 - more planning for cooling, finish SDS harness, reassemble FWF, secure engine harness, custom radiators order planning 37.25 hours
March, 2009 - get custom radiators on order from Mac's Radiators, order plumbing parts for new radiators, new air intake system, secure engine harness 4.75 hours
April, 2009 - remake supercharger air intake system, install new radiators and coolant lines 44 hours
May, 2009 - finish installing & securing coolant lines, find & fix leaks in poor welds from Mac's Radiator, install throttle and wastegate control cables, install supercharger air intake system, found out about yet another poor Eggenfellner design - the alternator will be overspeeding, same as with the supercharger. Run engine & tweak engine instrumentation, alter EIS PC board for tach 34.5 hours
June, 2009 - SDS tuning, install MT prop brush bracket 4.5 hours
July, 2009 - ran engine, tweaked SDS settings, found out BMA out of business 0.5 hours
August, 2009 - prop mounting, install prop brushes 11.25 hours
September, 2009 - MT prop controller wiring, engine run under prop load 7.0 hours
November, 2009 - engine run under load 3.5 hours
EARLY ENGINE DETAILS
Oct, 2002 - I am considering the Lycoming 180 HP or 200 HP (about $7K more for that extra 20 HP) available from Van's. Plus the engine installation kit is another $3,000-4500. I hope to be able to put a 200 HP fuel injected engine on it, with a CS prop.
Van's does not recommend any engines other than Lycoming, but I am also considering what appear to be very complete Firewall Forward packages from Eggenfellner and NSI, based on the Subaru EJ25 engine. I am considering the Subaru because of the compelling things fellow NH resident I've heard from Gary Newsted, as well as what Robert Paisley said about modern water-cooled, electronic ignition, closed loop electronic fuel injection engines vs standard air-cooled aircraft engines using 1930s technology. What he said makes a lot of sense to me.
Eggenfellner seems to have a very good reputation. The problem with the Eggenfellner Subaru (for me) is that it's only 165 HP. They do have a supercharger option, but all they use it for is to maintain sea level air pressure at altitude. So, at sea level, it makes the same 165 HP as the normally-aspirated model, and it will make 150 HP at 12,500 feet. Trouble is, I don't fly at 12,500 feet. Eggenfellner compares his "Soobercharger" model to the 200 HP IO-360, and says his makes 165 HP vs 200 HP for the Lycoming at sea level. He says it will make the same 150 HP at 8000' as the IO-360, and it will also make 150 HP at 12,500', while the IO-360 makes 120 HP. It is also about half the price of the IO-360.
The NSI sounds better, but lots of people on the RV7A list say "buyer beware" when dealing with NSI. NSI claims 205 HP from the same Subaru EJ25 engine as the Eggenfellner, but I wonder about reliability when the HP is boosted that much, and I am concerned about the negative things people say about NSI burning people by taking money for engines not delivered. I did chat with a person who has successfully bought an NSI engine, and he forwarded me emails from other happy NSI customers.
An NSI engine is a completely rebuilt and blueprinted engine. An Eggenfellner engine is an unopened low mileage used auto engine. Both claim to be a 100% complete Firewall Forward bolt-on installation, with nothing more to buy. The NSI 205 HP is considerably more money than the Eggenfellner; about the same as a 180 HP Lycoming, but claims to be more complete.
2006 update - for more NSI updates, see here and here and here and here and here . For Crossflow, see here and here. For both NSI and Crossflow (as well as Eggenfellner) issues, see the E-Subie Yahoo Group.
Well, these are some of my impressions so far. I've still got plenty of time to think about it. Hopefully, by the time I am ready to decide on the engine, there will be more planes flying with the Subaru, so there will be more feedback available.
Dec, 2002 - Another MOST interesting possibility is something I read about in the December 2002 Kitplanes magazine. They had an article about the Affordable Turbine Power (ATP) turboprop in an RV-4. A turbine engine might be very intriguing. There are some disadvantages, such as higher fuel consumption and much lighter weight. Lighter weight is good, but would require some juggling to keep the plane balanced. The article claimed 13 gph, which isn't TOO bad. This engine is in the development stage, so I will be keeping an eye on how it evolves over the next year or 2, while I am completing the rest of my plane.
2006 update - for more ATP/Innodyn turbine updates, see here and here and here and here .
Feb, 2003 - I am still closely looking at the Eggenfellner Subaru engine. I've written off the NSI because of reputation problems. Eggenfellner seems to have the same stellar reputation on the Internet as Van's, including a very open user group mailing list. Some of the reasons for choosing Eggenfellner Subaru:
** 2007 update - HA! Little did I know! see details on the monthly engine pages
This is what the Eggenfellner Firewall Forward kit looks like as it comes in the crate.
June 3, 2003 - I wanted to get my fuel plumbing all in while doing the cabin, so I had to decide on the type of fuel pump. Also, my Finish Kit was due to be coming soon, so I had to pick an engine, or else pay for this shipment now and another truck shipment later for the cowl. I decided the Eggenfellner, while it sounds really good, is better suited to the lower HP RV-9 than a max-HP RV-7, so I eliminated that. Then I decided the ATP was too risky and too far out, timewise, so I told Van's to ship me the Finish Kit based on a Lycoming 200 HP FI engine.
June 16 - Had a long chat with Nick at Superior Engines. I think that is the way I will go for my engine. Same/better engine for less money. I needed to make sure my new fuel pump was compatible with his engine, and that other engine-related Finishing Kit things I'd ordered (mainly spinner kit and engine mount) were going to be compatible with his engine. 1.0 hr
June 30 - I just read an ad in the latest Sport Aviation that Eggenfellner is now offering a 200 HP Subaru. Uh-oh! I'll have to call and see if it's compatible with the FI pump I am now installing and the RV-7A cowl I have coming next week. Maybe I am still not decided; a 200 HP Subaru that will use my existing fuel pump and fit under my existing cowl would be great.
This is the ad that got me thinking about changing engine choices.
July 3 - I talked to Jan Eggenfellner at Eggenfellner Subaru Aircraft Engines about his new 200 HP engine. He is putting the first one together in his own plane, and will be flying it to OSH. So, I'll look at it there, and decide which engine I will use. I also exchanged some emails with Van's, and they said I can return the FI fuel pump I just bought from them for the Lycoming engine. Close call on that - another couple days, and I would have completed the plumbing for that fuel pump. As it is, it's all wasted work on the sheet metal part of the fuel pump kit, assuming I do go with the 200 HP Subaru. So, all the fuel plumbing work is now on hold until I figure out for sure which engine I will use. Jan did say that the new 200 HP 6 cylinder Subaru will fit in under the same RV-7A IO360 cowl that the 165 HP 4 cylinder engine used, so that's a relief. I'll also have to return the Lycoming engine mount.
July 12 - I've been looking over the very thorough Eggenfellner installation manual. The required changes inside the cabin make me wonder if I want to do this. They do the fuel pump configuration entirely differently than Van's/Lycoming. To use their engine requires that I not only return the Van's pump (Van's said no problem on that), but I also have to toss the Van's fuel selector valve and use theirs, which has 6 connections, instead of 3, and has return lines going all the way back to the wing tanks. Remember what a hassle it was getting those 3/8" fuel supply lines in? Well, now I'll have to run an additional line back along the same route for fuel return. The only good side is that it's 5/16", not 3/8", so it'll be easier to run. I will also have to make new holes & bushings in the 782 and 783 brackets to support the line. Well, I have between now and OSH to think about it.
Aug 3 - I am just back from Oshkosh. I looked at the Eggenfellner 6 cylinder Subaru engine. I am still undecided. Jan said he is now calling it a 190 HP engine, instead of 200 HP. He also doesn't have a supercharger for it yet, and his 6 cylinder Subaru is the only one produced so far. I got to see Robert Paisley's and Gary Newsted's recently completed RVs with Eggenfellner engines, and I met and chatted with Robert Paisley. I looked at several other Lycoming IO-360 equivalents while I was there, particularly the XP-360 from Superior Air Parts . I also attended a day-long "Superior SL-360 Engine Kit Buildup" seminar while I was at AirVenture. HERE are all my notes and pictures from that. Check it out if you want to learn how to put a Lycoming 360 cubic inch engine together. 20 hr doc
This is the engine pre-oiler I ordered at OSH 2003. I am a big believer in pre-oiling an engine in order to save engine wear during startup. An inordinate percentage of engine wear occurs during startup. I had been wondering how I was going to do this (I already have an oil accumulator for race cars, but it's too big & heavy to try to use in my plane.) So, when I saw this, from the same people who had the grip I already knew I wanted, I grabbed it.
Aug 29 - I am leaning more and more toward the Eggenfellner 6 cylinder 200 HP Subaru engine. Next year, he will offer it with a supercharger, and I understand the 2004 engine has even more HP inside, with the same outside. I also found that I can get a brand new engine from Eggenfellner (as opposed to the used engines he usually offers), and Jan (Eggenfellner) has answered a lot of questions for me about how his supercharger works. With the supercharger, you are always at sea level pressure. I've also been studying the excellent online Eggenfellner installation manual, and working the Eggenfellner electric setup in with my avionics plans.
I read that Honda will soon be coming out with an aircraft engine. Now, THAT will probably be real nice! Their engines are known for reliability, so one that's made by them and designed for aircraft should be very good.
Sep 6 - Decision is made to go with Eggenfellner Subaru supercharged 6 cylinder H6 engine. Box up engine-related parts (spinner & kit, fuel pump & filter, engine mount) to send back to Van's. The engine mount was rather tricky to package, due to its size and bulk. 3.5 hr
Started with 2 large boxes and a plywood base, and started building the box to put the mount into.
This is the mount, mostly boxed.
Sep 15 - Got a call from Van's. They said they got the mount OK, but they need the front gear leg with it, as it is a MATCHED SET.
Sep 19 - Packaged up front gear leg to send to Van's. 1.0 hr
Sep 22 - Study Eggenfellner manual, documentation, and drawings, and plan for fuel system parts and any other parts that will go in the cabin that I will need to order now. 1.5 hr
Sep 23 - Placed my order for Eggenfellner engine & accessories. Ordered for Aug, 2004 delivery (he only ships in April, Aug, and Dec). Hopefully, I will have the money for it ($40K with all the top-of-the-line configuration and accessories I want) lined up by then. Otherwise, it may slip to the Dec, 2004 date. I should have my CA house sold by then to pay for it. I'm getting the Full Monty; brand new (not used) 6 cylinder 200 HP engine, with supercharger, MT prop and controller, Grand Rapids engine monitor. I requested the 2004 engine, if he can do it. I needed to get the order in so that I could order his Andair fuel valve and heater system, to put into the fuselage now. Jan said he won't sell parts to anyone who isn't a customer, with an engine on order. 1.0 hr
Here's a picture of the new 6 cylinder Eggenfellner engine. Now begins the long wait for delivery.
Oct 24 - Received Infinity Aerospace engine pre-oiler.
Nov 12 - I have an old unused Accusump, bought when the company, called Mecca then, first started business back in 1977. I see they are still in business. I am considering using an Accusump, instead of the electric pre-oiler, although, if I do, I'll probably get a new, smaller model. I also have an old used Frantz toilet paper oil filter system, which I might consider using. They really do work well, although they are a bit messy to change. They work in parallel with the standard oil filter, and do a good job of removing the finer particles. A new company is marketing the Frantz oil filters now. Looked into both Frantz and Accusump on the Internet. After I get the engine, I'll see what I have room for. 1.0 hr
Nov 15 - The Eggenfellner engine choice looks better and better all the time. At the time I was deciding whether or not to go with Eggenfellner (6 cylinder), the used 4 cylinder was the standard, and the 6 was "leading edge", on the horizon. Today, Jan announced that he is switching over to the 6 cylinder (brand new) as his primary engine. This was my choice anyway, so this fits in well. Jan has also worked out the bug on the supercharger, and continues to make regular improvements in the package. Posted some questions for Jan. It appears that my H6 is still the best choice for me. Jan's attentiveness and responsiveness to customers and potential buyers is outstanding. Changed my order delivery date to December, 2004, because I don't know how I'd pay for one in July. 1.0 hr
Dec 3 - Sent email to Infinity about returning the pre-oiler, as I have decided I'd rather use an Accusump accumulator-type pre-oiler. The disadvantage of the electric one is that it won't automatically handle momentary loss of oil pressure, as an accumulator will. The advantage of it is that it will continue pumping if the engine pump goes out, allowing you to limp to an airport. I see the former circumstance as more likely than the latter, so that's why I decided to return the electric Infinity pre-oiler, and go with the Accusump.
Dec 14 - Packed up the pre-oiler to send back to Infinity.
February, 2004 - Jan Eggenfellner's offerings continue to evolve and improve. His current 4 cylinder is the 2.5XT, offered only as a new engine. All Jan's engines are now brand new ones. This 2.5 XT is the same engine that is turbocharged in the Subaru Forester and WRX STi cars. This engine was designed to be boosted, so Jan is using his supercharger to boost above sea level pressure, although not to the 300 HP level of the STi. I also found out by accident that he is also abandoning the supercharging of the 6 cylinder H6, because its higher compression ratio won't allow more than sea level boost. The new 2.5XT also features new variable valve timing, and is Jan's new "hot-rod" motor.
So, I changed my order from the H6 to the 2.5XT, with the new dual SuperTrapp exhaust system. Also added the NPG+ coolant to my order. NPG+ is a special water-free coolant that will not boil over. This allows running an unpressurized coolant system, for longer hose life and greater reliability.
Jan is also now offering a custom version of the Grand Rapids EFIS, integrated with the Subaru FWF package. I had planned to get the GRT EFIS as at least my secondary EFIS anyway, so I added that to my order, too.
I also found out the new 2.5 XT turbo engine uses an electric wire throttle, so my quadrant plans are on hold until I get the engine and see how that works.
March, 2004 - I made enough money working lots of overtime in Jamaica all winter to pay for the engine, so I contacted Jan and asked that my order be moved up from December to July. He said he can't because there are no XT engines available now. He said he could do it for an H6, but I decided I'd rather wait for an XT.
May 28, 2004 - Got a call from Lisa at Eggenfellner. She said Jan found a source for a batch of 2.5XT engines. They want $9,000 now to get mine for me. At first, I thought this meant I'd get the engine early. Then I found out she meant it just gets me my engine into their shop, but Jan is already too booked to get it to me sooner than December. I sent them the $9K.
June 12, 2004 - There seems to be a vapor lock problem with some of the Subarus. A couple weeks ago, someone experienced vapor lock and his Eggie shut down and he was able to glide back to the airport. There was a big discussion on the Eggenfellner list about fuel vapor point and vapor lock. While that discussion was going on, Ray Doerr, who had just finished his plane a week or two before and started flying it, made an off-airport landing in a field last week, and trashed his new plane. The engine had quit after takeoff and level out, apparently due to vapor lock. What a horrible bummer for Ray! At least he came out of it OK, as did David Domeier who also went down in the Midwest, due to a thrown supercharger belt. So now, there are major discussions going on about how to solve the vapor lock problem. For starters, Eggenfellner is recommending 100LL only, until this gets sorted out. Apparently, the vapor lock is only occurring with mogas. I had planned to use just 100LL anyway, as I think that's all the local airports carry. The fuel plumbing may get redesigned, and I may have to tear out all my plumbing YET AGAIN, and redo it. Right now, Jan is leaning toward going to a "single tank" scheme, with no selector valve, a tee between the 2 tanks, and the return lines returning fuel to the tank opposite the tank we are drawing fuel from. I don't like this idea AT ALL, even though Jan thinks it will be OK. We'll see what develops. I'm sure it'll all get sorted out by the time my engine is ready.
July 6 - Jan Eggenfellner now says my order, and his product line, no longer includes the Grand Rapids Technologies (GRT) EFIS. This is the second time he has just "dropped" something from his product line, that I have as part of my order with him, without notifying anyone, and I only found out by chance while asking some other question. So now I am reconsidering my secondary EFIS choices. Regarding the vapor lock problem, he seems to have backed away from the more radical "single tank" idea, which I had thought was quite dangerous, and he's posted a couple simple ADs on his web site to deal with the vapor lock. He's advising limited use of auto gas, moving the aux fuel pump into the cabin, building a shroud around the firewall pump, and feeding cool air to the firewall pump. We'll see what develops by December.
Aug 5 - My friend DJ went to OSH and said he thought the NSI Aero Subaru was far and away a better package than Eggenfellner. So, I spent a bunch of time researching other Subaru engines, looking at NSI offerings, getting on other Subaru engine lists. I'm still pretty suspicious of NSI, though. For example, their page of "features" has all bad links to details about those features. And, while they have supposedly sold "lots" of complete FWF kits, their web site lists NOTHING about any pricing for that; just lots of hype. So I'm still not too impressed with NSI. The NSI descriptions SOUND good and LOOK good, but I am suspicious, wondering how much of it is real product. If they really have this super-complete FWF stuff for customers, then why is there no pricing for any of it, or any details of the great features? I hope DJ doesn't get burned by this guy. On the Subie list, the main NSI champion and Eggie detractor is someone named Paul Messinger. He seems to really have a thing against Eggenfellner engines. Whether his writings are based on objective fact analysis or something else, I don't know. My eyes are open, but for now I remain a believer that Eggenfellner is the best package. 2006 update - for more NSI updates, see here and here and here and here . 4.0 hr
Aug 6 - I DID see an engine at OSH04 that tempted me away from Eggenfellner, however. My second thoughts came the last day I was at AirVenture, when I happened upon the Innodyn tent. I had looked for Affordable Turbine Power at the show, but didn't find them listed in the vendor list. Apparently, they changed their name to Innodyn. And there's a company called Rivers Aeronautical that is now making a firewall forward kit for this engine. I had originally considered the ATP, but decided it was just too experimental for my taste. And it wasn't even ready to sell back when I was making my engine choices. Now there's a FWF kit for it for the RVs, so that excited me. I even considered backing out of the Eggenfellner engine for it. It would be very cool to have a turbine, but I decided I'd be at the bleeding edge of it, even with a FWF kit, while Jan's package is getting pretty well sorted out by now. If I bought the Rivers FWF kit, I'd be Customer #1, and I don't want to be there. According to the Rivers web site, they just finished the prototype a day or 2 before coming to OSH with it. So after thinking about it awhile, I decided to stick with the Eggenfellner. I just want to FLY the plane, not sort out any more problems than I have to. 2006 update - for more ATP/Innodyn turbine updates, see here and here and here.
Aug 9 - researching electrics for Eggenfellner engine, and replacement for EXPBUS. 2.0 hr
Aug 11 - electric system & Subaru research & emails. I've been doing lots of research & contacts & emails on other Subaru mail lists, trying to make sure Eggenfellner is the best way to go. I am tempted to bite the bullet and actually fly out to both Crossflow and NSI to see their engines in person. Got lengthy & detailed (good) reply from Paul Messinger about why he likes NSI & doesn't like Eggenfellner. 3.0 hr
Aug 12 - more electric, EFIS, and Subaru research. I'm getting pretty comfortable with my Eggenfellner decision. I think it'll be fine. 1.5 hr
Aug 17 - Worked on TAXES all day. Realized they were due YESTERDAY. .Got a call from Lisa at Eggenfellner. They are ready to start building December's engines, and want another $10K by the first of Sept. I confirmed my order and that I want it in December, and said I'd send them the money. Total price for the whole Eggenfellner order is going to be about $40K. At my friend DJ's suggestion, I also called Navco and talked to them about a loan. It sounded pretty simple. I also thought it would be a lot cheaper than the taxes on selling my house in CA, but then I realized that (6% on $100K) would be $6,000 PER YEAR, not $6K total cost. So, all of a sudden, the loan idea didn't seem so great at all. I think I'm going to just bite the tax bullet and cash in one or more of my 401K accounts to pay for the engine and avionics.
Aug 28 - I have been exchanging numerous emails with the people at EcuTek, makers of hardware and DeltaDash software for monitoring the Subaru ECU. They have been quite helpful and responsive. Received my DeltaDash training CD from EcuTek. 2.0 hr
Sep 1 - mailed $10,000 check to Eggenfellner for December engine. Also emailed him and asked him to send me the fuel pumps now, so I can get started with mounting them in the cabin. Jan replied that he will send me the fuel pumps & related pieces now. 0.5 hr
Here is David Domeier's fuel pump setup. Both pumps are in the cabin. David feels, and so do I, that high pressure fuel in the cabin is a more acceptable risk than the known vapor lock problems. Click on the pic for a big version of it. Not only does this setup take the pumps out of the hot engine compartment, it also places them as low as possible, so they don't have to draw fuel up. Jan's latest fuel pump installation diagram calls for the main pump to be on the firewall, and the backup (aux) pump to be in the cabin. Previously, both pumps were on the firewall. To beat the vapor lock problems, Jan's initial fix was to shield the pumps and feed cool air to them. Then he came up with putting the aux pump in the cabin. David and I have taken that idea a step further. We think that, if we can build a whole plane, we ought to be able to put a couple AN fittings together without leaks. Also, the standard Van's FI setup has the electric fuel pump in the cabin.
Sep 2 - While at NHIS for racing weekend, viewed the EcuTek DeltaDash training CD. It really looks like a good product, and I'm going to order it. Also spent some time with emails regarding engine situations followup. 1.5 hr
Sep 3 - followup on Eggenfellner emails. A couple weeks ago, Jan made a sudden, untested switch on the gearbox oils; to a Redline oil that a customer said had worked well for him. It now appears from additional customer feedback that the new oil has significant blowback problems. Jan attacked me on the list when I questioned why the switch had been made, within a matter of hours of hearing of the new oil, with little or no testing. HERE are the details of that. 0.5 hr
Sep 15 - Researching the DeltaDash Subaru engine monitor. The only problem with it is that if you reset a trouble code with it, it resets your entire ECU, including all learned and stored data. The ODB-II that Jan sells does not do this, so all of a sudden the DeltaDash does not seem so hot. I'm glad I spent so much time researching it before buying it. 1.0 hr
Sep 23 - more DeltaDash followup 0.5 hr
Oct 9 - Jan acknowledged on the list that his sudden switch to the Redline oil was a big mistake, and now he's stuck with a pallet of Redline oil.
Oct 11 - Received fuel pumps
from Eggenfellner. Spent about 3 hours analyzing the layout,
comparing it to the fuel drawings, and writing a long email to the
Eggenfellner mail list with many questions to the group about the fuel
pumps and their configuration. 3.0 hr
This is the fuel pump configuration I received. I didn't understand how it was supposed to be used, without taking it all apart. I also questioned why rubber auto fuel lines are being used, why they are 5/16", rather than 3/8", where the filter is plumbed in, what is supposed to go into the brass cross fitting between the pump and filter, and several other things about it. It turns out Jan has 2 configurations; one for people who are putting the main pump on the engine side of the firewall and the aux pump in the cabin, and another configuration for people like me who are putting both pumps in the cabin.
Oct 12 - I am quite ticked off at a voice mail Jan left on my cell phone tonight about my fuel plumbing questions to the list. I thought Jan had gotten extremely defensive with me and others over nothing a few times in the past, but this really takes the cake. He said I was way out of line for asking my questions on the list. He berated me severely, claiming I’d said “the clamps were no good, the hoses were no good, the assembly was no good, and the whole thing was a piece of shit”. All I did was ask a bunch of good, intelligent questions. He threatened to cancel my engine order because he’s “worried about me getting one of his engines if I am having so much trouble understanding a couple fuel pumps”. He said that "if I’d told him I was building the plane with both pumps inside, he’d have shipped the pumps configured like Dave Domeier’s". When I had asked him to send me the pumps before the engine, I told him then that the whole point of ordering the pumps early was so I could plumb both of them into the cabin now, like David Domeier had done. Perhaps he forgot that in the SIX WEEKS it took him to ship me the pumps. Perhaps I should be worried about me getting one of his engines if he's having so much trouble shipping a couple fuel pumps. His rant got cut off when my vmail timed out before he was finished. I think that if I call him, as defensive as he is and as ticked off as I am, we’re going to get into a really big fight that will not be productive for anyone. I overlooked the last time he attacked me for simply asking intelligent questions (when I questioned why he jumped so quickly on the Redline oil idea (which turned out to be such a bad idea), with no testing), but this one will forever stick in my craw and alter my view of Jan. Spent several hours dealing with this matter, including several private emails with other Eggenfellner customers. 3.0 hr
Oct 13 - Exchanged some emails with Jan about swapping out the pump configuration he sent me for the one I really should have gotten. I just ignored the nasty vmail he'd left me, and focused on moving forward. Packed up fuel pumps to send back to Jan. 2.0 hr
Oct 14 - Jan emailed me that the replacement fuel pumps will be going out on Monday.
Oct 15 - shipped fuel pumps back to Eggenfellner Aircraft. Left for Atlanta.
Oct 20 - Tom Moore now has a detailed web site of his Eggenfellner H6 Subaru engine installation (link gone stale in 2010). He, too, has put both fuel pumps in the cabin, using different pumps (from Airflow Performance) that do not require the use of 5/16" rubber fuel line. Jan mentioned on the list that he is now leaning more & more toward making "both fuel pumps in the cabin" his standard setup. Robert Paisley's testing of the new supercharged STi engine and intercooler is coming along nicely, just in time for the results to be added to my engine. I am expecting my December delivery to slip, as Jan is still working on shipping the STi engines that were due out in July. I emailed Jan, and asked him to be sure to add the intercooler to my order, as soon as he & Robert get it debugged.
Oct 30 - Jan is just now finishing up shipping his "July" orders, so obviously my "December" order is going to be late. Back in the middle of August, when Eggenfellner called me and wanted another $10K because they said they were about to start building my engine, I thought he'd gotten all his previous orders out, and was about to start on the next batch (my batch). Here, two and a half months later, he's apparently still finishing up the previous batch. I emailed Jan & asked when he projects the "December" engines will ship. He says "We will work hard for a February delivery", so that sounds like probably March. It now seems very doubtful that I will be flying this plane to OSH05. Plus, now I am working, and only able to work on the plane a few hours every other weekend. Also, I still have not received the fuel pumps Jan told me he'd ship on 10/18.
Nov 3 - Here is a link to Chris Kreig's fuel pump setup for his Eggenfellner H6 Subaru installation. His installation puts both fuel pumps in the cabin. I think that's the smart way to go. It's also where the standard Van's Fuel Injected Lycoming fuel pump is installed.
Nov 11 - Here's a quote I really liked, referring to the Eggenfellner Subaru engine:
A magneto is to a modern ignition system as a campfire is to a microwave oven :)
Nov 12 - speaking of quotes, here's one from someone who has been a longtime MAJOR Crossflow supporter:
NOT FOR ANY REASON DEAL WITH CROSSFLOW!!!!
If you want Subaru, get the Eggenfellner. Jan is a man of integrity and will take care of you.
Should have went Eggy!!!!
Nov 15 - I realized it's been a whole month since Jan promised on 10/14 to send me the correct pump configuration. I emailed him about it. Incredibly, he's apparently done again what he did the first time; forgot to send the pumps and then forgot what pump configuration he'd promised to send. This was his response:
I am one of the 2 people who campaigned to make this the new standard, and planned to do it that way, even if Eggenfeller and other builders didn't follow suit. I am sick of dealing with Jan on these pumps, and I'd really rather have the Airflow Performance pumps, because their plumbing configuration is AN-6 lines, and Jan's is 5/16" rubber hose. These are the pumps Tom Moore is using. I asked Jan if the Airflow Performance pumps would work for his system, as Mickey on the Eggy list had said Airflow told him their pumps put out 35 gph at 30 psi. Jan replied "No, 30 psi is not enough :) The pump should make 50-80 psi, then have the pressure dropped by a regulator", so I asked him to send me his pumps.
Also, Gary Newsted just announced today on the BMA site that his fuel flow transducer module for BMA EFIS & Subaru is available through Eggenfellner. While I'd much rather get it direct from Gary, due to all the hassles with Jan over the fuel pumps, I guess I am stuck having to order it through Jan. I wonder how long that'll take, and how many ways it'll be screwed up.
Nov 18 - Jan says he has shipped my pumps, and says he is already sold out of Gary's fuel flow module. He also says I am on his backorder list for the module. Here is the pic Jan posted today of his latest fuel pumps configuration, and hopefully the same as what he just sent me. It looks pretty good, although I'd still rather be using all-metal plumbing. I suppose the rubber hose works for 100,000 miles or more on the cars, though.
This is a picture of the Eggenfellner supercharged 2.5 STi engine I'll be getting. This one is Jim Skala's.
This is Jim Skala's MT prop; what I'll be getting with my Eggenfellner FWF kit.
Nov 24 - got home & had received numerous parts orders, including the new fuel pumps and the fuel flow sensor module for the BMA EFIS. Jan sent the pumps UPS Next Day Air, so they've been sitting here since last week. Hope I didn't get charged for the unnecessary freight. UPS Ground would have been fine. Oh well........
Here is version 2 of the fuel pumps. From the list, I gather that Jan has changed the configuration a bit more since these were shipped. He's now using bigger filters on the inlet side (LT in this pic). I guess we'll eventually get this configuration right.
Dec 6 - Jan posted a chart on his site that shows the HP curve of the STi supercharged engine vs the 2.5L single cam supercharged engine. This is another of Jan's "surprises" that people find out by accident. I think Jan's an honest guy busting his butt to provide the best product he can, but the lesson is NEVER ASSUME ANYTHING with Jan; always ask lots of questions. I was quite dismayed to find that the supercharging, and thus the HP curve, is not done the same with the STi as with the 2.5L single cam, and how I had assumed the STi supercharging worked. Now I am wondering if I should choose the single cam or the H6 instead of the STi.
Dec 8 - people on the RV7 list were talking about the Innodyn turbine. Apparently, Rivers Aeronautical is no longer associated with Innodyn, and Innodyn is working on developing the engine further and may be coming out with an RV FWF and prop at some unknown point in the future. I SURE am glad I didn't drop the Eggenfellner engine and sign up for the Rivers/Innodyn turbine!! Also, Jan is now saying that he expects to have his intercooler for the STi engine debugged and out by March.
Dec 10 - I posted questions to the Eggenfellner list about how and why the STi is supercharged the way it is, and requested that Jan add the H6 to the HP chart. The questions stirred up a lot of good discussion (subject: high altitude performance). Here are a couple replies that explain how the STI supercharger works:
The problem is that the Eaton M45 SC is putting out all it can to make 220HP in the STi (The Sti needs considerable boost to make 220HP); therefore, it has no reserve for higher altitudes.
The way I understand it is that the supercharger can provide a certain amount of air to the engine i.e. it can only pump so much air without stepping up to the next larger supercharger. At sea level it has enough capacity to provide up to 50" of output. The STi engine can use this, but the L cannot so we bleed off some air. Since the supercharger is running close to or at capacity providing 50" at sea level, its output steadily decreases from there as the altitude increases. At the point (altitude) where it can only provide a maximum of 34" the engines are getting the same amount of air. However, at this point, the L engine has the advantage because it has a higher compression ratio and can use this intake air a little more efficiently.
Jan replied with this:
And Robert Paisley (the guy who is doing all the supercharged STi testing for Jan) replied with a good description of the STi in the real world, including this:
Some people are horsepower hungry, climb rate hungry, speed hungry, adrenaline junkies. The STI is a great motor for these people.
Since that described me to a "T", and the H6 is the same curve as the STi, only lower, that ended my question as to whether I had chosen the right engine or not. Jan also confirmed that the STi with supercharger and intercooler is the same weight as the H6. I did suggest to Jan that he consider the Eaton M62 for the STi, instead of the M45, for future development. The M62 is the same size as the M45, except it is 45mm longer.
Here is the HP chart with the H6:
HERE is a link to more info on superchargers & how they work.
HERE is a link to details of the Eaton superchargers.
Dec 15 - decided to order DeltaDash from EcuTek.
Dec 23 - working on POH - wrote an email to the Eggenfellner group, asking for info on engine parameters, like min/max oil pressure, temp, etc. 1.0 hr
Dec 24 - received DeltaDash software and cable.
Here are the DeltaDash CD, training CD, ECM adapter, and computer cable.
January 3, 2005 - still haven't gotten any useful answers to my questions about engine parameters. Resent email, asking for reply from Jan on it.
Jan 4 - resent email about engine parameters to Eggenfellner list , and directly to Jan again, clarifying again what info I wanted. I never did get any sort of a reply from Jan on it. I did, however, get good replies from Robert Paisley and Gary Newsted as to what values I should be seeing. Also, Jan subsequently posted on his web site a chart of the engine parameters. All 3 sources have some different values, but at least it's something to work with. HERE is the spreadsheet with the info. 1.0 hr
Jan 7 - Robert Paisley offered to test my DeltaDash system. This is a great idea, as he is WAY ahead of me, both in terms of experience with working with these Eggenfellner engines and the fact that I probably won't be flying mine for about a year. I packed up the DeltaDash stuff and mailed it to Robert. Also, I got a final invoice for $20K from Jan Eggenfellner for the engine. The invoice was very cryptic and confusing as to what each charge was for. I figured out some of the items by process of elimination from what I'd ordered, and sent Jan an email about it, asking for some clarifications.
Jan 10 - No reply from Jan - resent the email to him, asking for a reply.
Jan 11 - I had a vague recollection that there was something else in the DeltaDash package, but there's no sign of it now. I remember that the order form had asked what format I wanted the hardware in, and I'd specified USB. So, there should be something else to go in the USB port. Exchanged several emails with Ecutek folks and found that I am missing the most important and most expensive piece - the USB dongle. They sent me a link to a picture of it, and then I realized that I had gotten it, but I'd thought it was just a promotional keyring, so I had just tossed it into my junk drawer with spare keys & keyrings. Excellent responsiveness from the Ecutek people. Still no reply from Jan to my questions about the invoice. You'd think that, for a $20,000 balance on a $40,000 engine, he could reply so I'd send him the $20K.
Jan 12 - finally got reply from Jan, clarifying what the invoice details are for. Balance due to him Feb 1.
Jan 16 - I was looking over my DeltaDash software, even though I'd sent the hardware and software to Robert Paisley for testing. It seems I need to know the Subaru model, model year, country, and ECU/engine designator code to select the right ECM in the DeltaDash software. Posted a question to Eggenfellner list, asking this info.
Jan 17 - Jan is REALLY irritating me with the last couple simple questions I've posed to him. The last one was the hassle where I had to ask the question over and over, and rephrasing the question each time, about getting the engine operating parameters. Now, he's doing it again with the questions about which STi engine I will be receiving. After repeatedly giving me cryptic, incorrect, incomplete, and misleading answers, and me going around & around with him, re-wording the same question over and over, trying to just get a straight answer, he has yet to answer the question. 1.0 hr
Jan 18 - Jan never did actually come out and directly answer my questions about what car model, model year, and car country/market his STi engine is from. He initially said it was Japan 2003, but then later, when I couldn't find that combination, he said it was US/Canada, then later, after I couldn't find US/Canada 2003 either, he said it was 2005. He did eventually come up with what I think is the ECU designator code I need for my DeltaDash software.
Jan 24 - double checked with Jan that my order will contain the new, improved flywheel and damper, as well as the new Gen 2 PSRU. I also thought it might be better to wait until the intercoolers come in March, so I can get my engine with the intercooler installed. I got a quick response from Jan, and he said this:
All of the new parts go onto these engines. The intercooler will not be mounted to the engine prior to shipping because it has to be off while mounting the engine anyhow.
Reconfirmed we are a GO and I will send him the balance Feb 1.
Jan 31 - mailed $20K check to Eggenfellner for balance on engine. Engine due in Feb.
Feb 10 - my $20K clears my bank
Feb 12 - got email from another Eggenfellner customer about how many months he's waited for his engine after paying for it in full. He said he was asked to send the payment in full last September for a "December" shipment, and he's STILL waiting for his engine after paying for it in full so long ago. He expects he'll be one of the "February" engines. My expectation is that Jan will follow his own policy - "balance due 2 weeks before delivery" - and that, because he requested final payment by Feb 1, he will ship as promised. We shall see.
Feb 14 - Robert Paisley had this to say about the Ecutek:
I have been using the EcuTek DeltaDash
OBD monitoring product for a couple weeks now to check it out. Brian Meyette
was good enough to loan it to me for a test drive. This software package
lets you monitor all ECU inputs and outputs on a laptop during engine
operation. There is a very good logging function which allows you to record
a vast amount of engine data and review it later with graphical depiction of
Though it has been interesting using this software, it is probably most useful for someone like Jan who is doing development work and getting new engine packages up and running. Most plane owners would probably not need a package like this unless they were trying to debug a problem with their engine.
Feb 20 - sent email to Jan, requesting status of engine shipment. He replied "Working VERY hard to get the engines out but it will be March before it will happen :( The improvements are costing me $$$$ and time but it is worth it.". Hmmmmmmm. :-(
Mar 9 - wrote to Jan asking when my engine will be shipping, and queried him about why he asked for payment Feb 1 if it wasn't going to ship by mid Feb. He replied that in January, he HAD planned to ship by mid-Feb, and "It now looks as though H-6 engines will ship next week and then STI engines right behind." Vague, but it sounds like the first of April to me. I have to admit, though - Jan has been very good about continuous improvements in his products, and my engine will come with all the latest improvements; the new vacuum-compensated fuel regulator, the new design PSRU, the new improved flywheel and damper.
Mar 22 - queried Jan again about the status of my engine
Mar 24 - no answer from Jan about my engine - sent query again. Got this reply:
All H-6 engines shipped today and pictures sometime tonight on the web. Your engine will run next week and then ship the following. Well, I guess we're getting there, albeit slowly. That promise makes it "by April 8". If he doesn't ship by then, as promised, it'll probably get delayed another couple weeks, due to Sun N Fun. Also, I've been reading rave reviews from Robert Paisley and a couple others on the list about how great the new flywheel, damper, and PSRU are working.
Apr 5 - sent email to Jan, asking if my engine will ship this week, before he shuts down for Sun & Fun. Got a prompt reply saying YES! So, I should have it by the end of next week. I can hardly wait to see it. Just in time, as I'm finishing up on the canopy.
Apr 11 - got email from Jan - engine ready to ship, but he needs disclaimer signed, notarized, and faxed. I did that, not knowing whether or not he'd ship my engine before Sun & Fun. I was not too happy to read at the bottom of the form that it said there is no warranty on internal engine parts for supercharged engines, but it's kinda late to back out now.
Apr 12 - got call from Roadway in Bellows Falls, VT. They have my engine ready for pickup.
Apr 13 - picked up engine in Bellows Falls. 2.0 hr
It was a perfect fit of the engine crate and the prop crate in the back of a mini-pickup.
Apr 14 - Unloaded engine from truck in the morning. People on the list were saying that Jan has apparently gone from a grooved belt for the supercharger to a cog belt. In the afternoon, I opened up the crate, because I wanted to see what kind of belt & pulley I have. Surprise! No belt, no pulley, no supercharger. It looks like a grooved pulley on the alternator. Emailed Jan to try to find out what's going on. Also, another user told me of a new change - an "air tumbler", so I asked Jan about that, too. It may be a couple days before I get a reply, as he's still at SNF. 1.0 hr
Hoisting the engine off the truck.
Here's the engine in its crate, with the top and front of the crate removed. Jan puts his crates together with screws, as did ATC, Alexander Technical Center. The crates from Van's always come with about a million staples, and they are much more difficult to open, plus taking the crates apart destroys most of the wood. I've suggested that Van's put their crates together with screws. I'd gladly pay more for a crate assembled with screws.
What supercharger? Do you see a supercharger? I don't see a supercharger. I do see an alternator with grooved, not cog, pulley, and a big bolt in the center where a drive pulley might go. We'll see what Jan says. Maybe he was waiting to get the cog belts & pulleys in before shipping the supercharger. I'd have preferred to wait & get it delivered with everything installed, but I suppose I was bugging him about when he'd be shipping, so maybe he wanted to just get it shipped. This pic is looking at the top of the engine as it is bolted into the crate. Fwd is up in the pic.
Apr 16 - Finish opening the engine crate and put away all the extras that came with it; prop control, supercharger control, EIS, mufflers, wiring, connectors, spinner, etc. There's definitely no supercharger included with it. Waiting for Jan to get back from SNF to find out what his plan is. 1.0 hr
Apr 20 - queried Jan again about my previous questions about the supercharger and "air tumbler", and asked about missing Subaru engine manual. I later heard back from Jan about my missing items:
People on the RV7 list were talking about seeing Innodyn at SNF. Apparently Rivers Aeronautical (see my entry for last Aug 6) is now a ghost of the past, and Innodyn themselves are working on FWF packages. It'll be quite an engine if they can get it going with a usable FWF package. That would have been my #1 choice if it had been ready when I was. 188 pounds putting out 255 HP sure sounds good to me! Of course, fuel flow will be higher, but it still sure sounds good, and I wish them well on it. For more Innodyn updates, see here and here.
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