Mike Crowe's Tool Suggestions:

I got this from Mickey Coggins' web site.  Mike Crowe posted this email on the Matronics RV-List. It is a good note.  Like Mickey, I worked with Mike to build my tail at the Alexander Technical Center, and thought he is a good guy.  This is Mike's posting (with my grammatical and spelling corrections):   My own notes and comments are in red.

See my main tools page for more info & pics on essential and nice-to-have tools.


--> RV-List message posted by: "Michael D Crowe"

To introduce myself, first I am an A&P mechanic with an IA.  I work as a Lead Mechanic for a major air line.  For the past two years I have worked part time at the Alexander Technical Center at Griffin GA as an instructor on their quick start tail assembly program.  I have been involved in over 100 tail kits.  I have worked on the 6,7,8,9 and 10 kits.  I am also building a RV8A myself.

As each class begins, I ask if the student have already purchased their tools.  My hopes are that they have not, as we have a good selection of tools to try from the different manufacturers.  The ones that have gotten their tools before coming often say I wish I had gotten this tool or that tool instead.  In the following, I will try to give you a list and suggestions of tools that I have learned over the past two years.  Please keep in mind that this information is my opinion and mine alone.  Others may agree or disagree.

There are two major suppliers of tools for the RV tail kits that I recommend Avery  and Cleaveland.  Both are RV builders and are good and honest people to do business with.  I have found Avery's customer service to be superb, on each of the many occasions I have done business with them.  I have found Cleaveland's customer service to be quite lacking on multiple occasions.  Other than a couple good tools that Cleaveland carries and Avery does not (and I've suggested to Avery that they add these couple items), I would not do business with Cleaveland again.

I would buy a tool kit from Avery or Cleaveland to begin with.  Both will allow you to add or subtract the tools you want to the kit.  I will use both their 2004 catalogs as a guide.

First, if you buy Cleaveland's kit, I would buy their complete airframe tool package p/n Comp-Kit 04If 'twas me, I'd just scroll down to the "If you buy an Avery kit" section, or just click here.

I would subtract from the kit:

BBRP-48 Back Riveting Plate-It is a nice plate, but too small in my opinion.  Bigger is better.  Heavier is better.  You can easily make your own.  See my main tools page for pics & details.

CF-80 C-Frame Riveting Tool-More about C-Frames later, but if you get this one also order their C-Frame Table Kit CTF-48

ASRD-14 Air Swivel Regulator- I have found the round knob regulator is hard to regulate.  I agree - either get the T-shaped ones or get a diaphram-type pressure regulator.   See my main tools page for pics & details.  

I would add to the kit:

I would upgrade to the 3X Rivet gun.  The 2x works good on the 3/32 rivet, but not well on the 1/8 rivet.  Get a 3x to work well on the 1/8, and turn down the pressure a little to do the 3/32, or better yet buy one of each.

DP-8  Drive Pin Punches- This is a nice punch set.  You could get by with only the 3/32 and 1/8 (you will be removing a few bad rivets).  You WILL be removing at least a few rivets.  Don't go crazy over drilling out rivets, though; often a rivet that's drilled-out for some minor imperfection will end up with a worse/weaker rivet than what you started with.

LBL-13  BOELUBE   Do not drill lead without it.  I don't know why he says this about lead, but I'm sure he knows what he's talking about.  You also need this stuff just for general drilling, especially into anything steel and/or very thick.

3MW-77S6  Light deburring wheel- You get a rougher one in the kit.  You need both.  Go to Home Depot or Lowe's and get a grinder and install these wheels.  You definitely need both wheels, as I learned at ATC, and have certainly proven while building my plane.  Make sure you check that the hole diameter is compatible with whatever you are going to mount these wheels onto; I had to order my wheels from MSC to get the right arbor hole diameter I needed.  Avery's customer service is SO GOOD, they even helped me spec out what I needed to order from MSC, as Avery didn't have what would fit my 3/4" arbors. 

3MP-47  Scotch-Brite pads- you will need plenty.  I bought a case of the maroon ones from MSC.

DIE509-10  #10 SCREW DIMPLE DIES- You will need these to dimple for the screws for the lead weights.  You also need a #10 countersink cutter to cut into the lead for the dimple.

SNYT-45  4in THIN NOSE YOKE- You are going to need a thin nose and a 4in nose.  Get them both in one.

SNYF-35  2.5in FLANGE NOSE YOKE-  There are places where nothing else is going to reach.

RSMS-75 SWIVEL FLUSH SET WITH RUBBER GUARD- You must cut some of the rubber down, or your rivets will set too high

CLP-20 CLEKO PLIERS- One is not enough.  unless you like looking for your tools

CLC-50 1/2in CLEKO CLAMP- You get 4. You need at least 10

CLC-100 1in CLEKO CLAMP- You get 4. You need at least 10

For the RV9 DIECS4-4 120 DEGREE DIES FOR 1/8 POP RIVETS- You use a lot of CS4-4 on the skin of your elevators.  They are 120 degrees.  You need these for more than just the -9. 

For our RV10 friends RSB-12  12in back rivet set- You will need this to back rivet the stiffeners on the elevators.

The RV10 will also need BBRV10 SPECIAL BUCKING BAR- You will need this for the elevators.

I would buy from Avery to complete the kit from Cleaveland:

575 hand seamer 3-1/2 jaw-I use this to squeezing the trailing edge of the trim tabs.

550 3/32 vise grip dimpler- several places on ribs this is needed. 

150 AIR TOOL REGULATOR- This one is easier to adjust.

1046 SPEED DEBURRING AND COUNTERSINKING TOOL

23904 4 PC. HOOK AND PICK SET- You will need a pick many times for aligning skins   TRUE - very handy

For the RV9   42120   SPECIAL 120 DEGREE COUNTERSINK- Used where you use CS4-4 rivets on the elevators.  You'll need this for more than just the -9.   Don't forget to get the 120 degree dimple dies, too.  When I got my 120 degree dimple dies, only Cleaveland had them.  I suggested to Avery that they stock them.  I don't know if they acted upon my suggestion.


If you buy an Avery tool kit, I would buy the RV-3,-4-6-7-8-9and -10 builders tool kit.

I would subtract from the kit:

1001 22in hand rivet and dimpling tool.  It is their C-frame tool.  It is a good tool, but see below about my recommendations for a C-frame tool

10765  POLYETHYLENE DIMPLING MALLET- Goes with the C-frame tool. If you get the C-frame tool, get the mallet.

500  FLUTING PLIERS- You need a pair of fluting pliers.  I like Cleaveland's a lot better.  I like Avery's Vise-Grip fluting pliers much better.  For example, I doubt you can flute 0.063" sheet very well with the Cleaveland fluting pliers.  Click here for an application example.

1042  EDGE ROLLING TOOL-  I can not get this tool to work for me. It could just be me.  See Cleaveland's EF-60 below

3507  3M RIVETING TAPE- Works well.  If you use it, take it off after use; it is real hard to get off later.  Scotch Removable Magic Tape works as well and is much cheaper.

9885  ANGLE DRILL KIT-  Nice kit not needed for the tail kit.  Could be used later.  I think it would be MUCH harder to build the plane without some sort of angle drill.  I recommend the kind that takes the threaded drill bits.  You can get them used on ebay for much cheaper than new in the tool catalogs.  Buyer beware, of course.

1054  #8 SCREW COUNTERSINK CUTTER- Not needed for the tail kit.  but you'll need it later - get it

25500  SWIVEL HEAD POP RIVET TOOL-  If you must use a hand pop tool, use Cleaveland's PRS-20.  It is much easier to squeeze.

I would add to the kit:

7760  4in  NO HOLE YOKE

7755  LONGERON YOKE

811  RIVETING TAPE- Scotch removable magic tape.

1003   BOELUBE  Do not drill lead without it.  I don't know why he says this about lead, but I'm sure he knows what he's talking about.  You also need this stuff just for general drilling, espeially into anything steel and/or very thick.

200  CLECO PLIERS- One is not enough.

1661  Light deburring wheel- You get a rougher one in the kit.  You need both.  Go to Home Depot or Lowe's and get a grinder and install these wheels.  You definitely need both wheels, as I learned at ATC, and have certainly proven while building my plane.  Make sure you check that the hole diameter is compatible with whatever you are going to mount these wheels onto; I had to order my wheels from MSC to get the right arbor hole diameter I needed.    Avery's customer service is SO GOOD, they even helped me spec out what I needed to order from MSC, as Avery didn't have what would fit my arbors. 

23904  4 PC. HOOK AND PICK SET-You will need a pick many times for aligning skins.

For the RV9   42120  SPECIAL 120 DEGREE COUNTERSINK-Used where you use CS4-4 rivets on the elevators.  You'll need this for more than just the -9 and for more than just the elevators.   Don't forget to get the 120 degree dimple dies, too.  When I got my 120 degree dimple dies, only Cleaveland had them.  I suggested to Avery that they stock them.  I don't know if they acted upon my suggestion.
 
For the RV10 630 RV10 ELEVATOR BUCKING BAR

I would buy from Cleaveland to complete the Avery kit:.

3MP-47  Scotch-Brite pads- you will need plenty.  I bought a case of the maroon ones from MSC.

DIE509-10  #10 SCREW DIMPLE DIES- You will need these to dimple for the screws for the lead weights.  You also need a #10 countersink cutter to cut into the lead for the dimple.  I don't know why Avery doesn't carry #10 dies (or 120 degree dies); I've suggested to them that they do.

EF-60  EDGE FORMER- Needed at seams  I like this Cleaveland edge former much better than the Avery version.  For example, I could not have used the Avery model to do this.

HS-30  OFFSET HAND SEAMER- Used many places

FP-200  FLUTING PLIERS- Used to straighten ribs.  I like Avery's Vise-Grip fluting pliers much better.  For example, I doubt you can flute 0.063" sheet very well with the Cleaveland fluting pliers.  Click here for an application example.

For the RV9  DIECS4-4  120 DEGREE DIES FOR 1/8 POP RIVETS- You use a lot of CS4-4 on the skin of your elevators.  They are 120 degrees.  As I've mentioned above, you will need these 120 degree dimple dies and countersink cutters for more than just the -9 and for more than just the elevators.  I had to get them for my -7A, and I imagine all the Van's models will need them.  All the Van's models use CS4-4 pop rivets, and you need 120 degree cutters and dies for the CS4-4 rivets.  If you use the 100 degree dies & cutters on CS4-4 pop rivets, your pop rivet heads will not seat properly, and will stick up.

For our RV10 friends  RSB-12  12in back rivet set- You will need this to back rivet the stiffeners on the elevators.

Tools that would be nice to have:

PNEUMATIC SQUEEZER- In my opinion, a must-have. Get a 214 style. Make sure to get an adjustable set holder for it.  I agree completely.  Not an option, but a must-have.  Get them used on ebay for a couple hundred bucks.

PNEUMATIC POP RIVET GUN- Go to Harbor Freight or such and get one for around $40.00  Even though I am considered a "tool nut", I don't have one, and don't really see the need for one on an RV.  To each his own.

LIGHTWEIGHT HOSE KITS- Makes it a lot easier to handle drills and rivet guns.  I agree - I got mine from MSC.

TATCO HAND SQUEEZER WITH 2in YOKE- Makes it a lot easier to dimple all those ribs.  I agree - nice to have, if you can afford it (after getting the not-so-optional pneumatic squeezer.  Quick & easy to use.  I got mine on sale at The Yard Store.

C-FRAME DIMPLER:
Made by EXPERIMENTAL AERO.  I brought a DRDT-1 dimplier and installed it at Alexander Technical Center to try it out in January this year.  Boy, was that a mistake. There is no way I am getting it back. It is the best I have used for dimpling. It gives the best dimples; it is consistent, quiet, and a one-man operation.

There is no way I am going back to the old C-frame hammer method.  Now, if I need to dimple, I pack up what I have and drive 32 miles, even though I have a hammer C-frame dimpler at home.  It is that much better.  They now sell the DRDT-2 which has some improvement over the -1.  I have not used one of these lever-activated dimplers from Experimental Aero, but I have heard nothing but good things about them.

Mike Crowe
 

See my main tools page for more info & pics on essential and nice-to-have tools.

brian

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